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Sony NEX FS700 - 4k
26 May 2012 18:37
I saw that review, and i can`t wait to see second part, but i`m pretty sure that i need to buy this camera :)
I think that you can shot 480fps with it (even with lost of resolution) and scale it down to 720p and all stock sites should accept that footage without any problems, even istock.
If you want to see more examples there is fs700 group on vimeo:
This is one of my favourite video :)
26 May 2012 18:50
I guess the bigger picture for this camera is what can it do for you without high frame rates.
Flooding the market with all slow-motion would be like flooding the market with time-lapse.
Personally, I'm not interested in slow motion that much just as I'm not interested in time-lapse. So to spend $9000 on this camera would be foolish if I only got it for slow motion.
I think for us the next step would be the C300 or similar.
26 May 2012 19:03
Of course that this is not camera only for slow motion, i very like the picture quality, i think it would be much sharper than MK III.
26 May 2012 19:04
Yes, I agree there.
28 May 2012 19:51
here is the second part of P. Bloom review
3 Jun 2012 12:04
Besides movies, stock, weddings, commercials, and documentaries; this camera can be used in time and motion studies in the manufacturing industry and assembly lines. So it opens another channel of income. You can offer your services to manufacturing consultants.
Changed 3 Jun 2012 12:07 by LUXORPYRAMID ""
4 Jun 2012 16:18
Does anyone know yet how much the 4K upgrade and recorder will cost?
4 Jun 2012 16:22
They haven't announced it yet. But from the talk at NAB it's about like buying a RED.
4 Jun 2012 17:29
Everyone expect that this upgrade will cost a lot
And by the way there is one guy allready here selling clips from FS700 (he have pre production unit from sony)
4 Jun 2012 17:32
Let the slo-motion begin.....
5 Jun 2012 17:53
time lapse sells good, even badly done time lapse. hopefully slow motion follows that pattern :-)
20 Jun 2012 11:32
That looks like a small hand in a very old WWI .45
Changed 26 Jun 2012 20:36 by LUXORPYRAMID ""
Changed 26 Jun 2012 20:40 by LUXORPYRAMID ""
26 Jun 2012 19:45
Some comparisons on the FS700 and 5DMKIII
2 Jul 2012 12:15
tic-toc-tic-toc one month remaining
2 Jul 2012 12:59
Who needs the FS700?
I shot 500fps on my Iphone :)
500fps on the IPhone
11 Jul 2012 00:45
Anyone get their fs700 yet/
11 Jul 2012 13:57
Everyone is waiting for you.
11 Jul 2012 14:46
:-) They will need to wait a little longer.
17 Jul 2012 12:27
I just order one for me, i think in two weeks i`ll have it.
Can`t wait to play with slow-mo :)
18 Jul 2012 12:59
Motion_Poland the "slow-mo monster" jejejejeje. Looking to see your new stuff.
7 Aug 2012 14:17
Flicker problems with the fs700
7 Aug 2012 14:49
Not problems with the FS700... problems with high speed video :-)
7 Aug 2012 14:52
Isn't that the only reason to buy this camera?
8 Aug 2012 08:44
Basic physics will tell you to expect flickering. "Old fashioned" tungsten lights get switched on and off at the same number of "cycles" as the mains frequency. The human eye doesn't see this and so just sees "light".
LED lights have a slower "decay" time (look at an energy efficient bulb after you turn it off).
If ever you see sports scoreboards "flickering" on slow motion replays this is exactly the same effect.
8 Aug 2012 21:35
Unfortunately sony have problems with delivery this camera to customers i saw on istock few people saying that they are waiting few weeks for their cameras, even at B&H they have 2-4 weeks waiting time.
I was told that i have to wait until end of august here in Poland.
8 Aug 2012 22:25
Same with my Blackmagic camera. Maybe I'll get it by end of September
10 Aug 2012 09:32
So we all have to wait for our new toys :)
14 Aug 2012 00:38
MP, did you get your fs700? I've been holding out on it because I am eager to see the BM
14 Aug 2012 06:40
Dapoota in shop where i pre-order it they say they should have it by the end of the month
7 Sep 2012 21:02
Motion, how do you like your fs700?
8 Sep 2012 21:29
Still waiting for it, i don`t know why but there is no store in Poland that have this camera. In one that i`ve pre-order it they still don`t know when they will have it.
9 Sep 2012 00:48
that sucks :-( GET IT SOON!!!
10 Sep 2012 03:16
4K software upgrade just weeks away for 500 English Pounds or $800.00 US dollars.
10 Sep 2012 18:41
Awesome. That isn't bad.
10 Sep 2012 18:46
That sounds pretty cool.
Which external recorders are compatible and how much do they cost to record the 4K footage?
10 Sep 2012 22:34
there is an aja for $4k on bh
4k for $4k
I'm not going to do that upgrade any time soon. Hopefully the Atmos group comes out with 4k recorders... around $1500
11 Sep 2012 00:04
It is a new tech, with rapid developments. I would wait a bit for an investment myself, but to each their own.
11 Sep 2012 00:17
same here physics. I think it's too early to get into.
11 Sep 2012 04:22
About $6,000-$8,000 (Gemini Raw). Wait 2 years+ until prices go down.
11 Sep 2012 04:50
Exactly. I just don't think the profit for stock imagery will make it worth while. Not unless you make a lot more than me anyway :-)
11 Sep 2012 15:31
I don't think there is a big 4k market at all yet... if that changes I'll take a leap ;-)
My rubber band bank pockets aren't that stock deep
11 Sep 2012 16:05
I still sell lots of stock video from my old Canon HV-20 ;). I do use the Canon XH-A1, 7D, 5D MK II and 5D MK III .... but the old tape drive interlaced HV-20 still makes me money almost every week. Is the 4K needed for stock ... not yet and not for many years.
11 Sep 2012 21:35
4k will not be here soon but i think that you guys don`t see one thing, if you shot a clip in 4k and want still upload only 1080p, from one shot you can have two clips, for example one wide shot (downscaled) and one closeup (cut from 4k without downscaling)
So if you plan your shot you can have 2x more clips in the same time.
11 Sep 2012 22:33
I disagree.... I have sold several 4K clips simply because they allow for post production processes that can't be done with HD. It gives the editor far more flexibility as they can zoom in, out, pan and all that without losing resolution. That's the whole point of larger formats in today's world. Perhaps 4K tvs and such are not yet predominant and may never be, but when it comes to post, this is where it is worthwhile.
Gee Don, I thought you had a lot more cameras than just those? :)
11 Sep 2012 23:09
It's always a good idea to upgrade to the best technology that is proven to have a future. Just don't bet on Betamax futures. VHS won that battle. The advantages for 4k is known, the older technologies of 1920x1080 HD will be around for a long long time. Just look at Hollywood. They are using video from decades ago and re-mastering as well as converting to 3D. Those who are using the current "pro" level 1080 p cameras have nothing to fear for a long time.
;) I keep the others under cover and out of sight LOL.
12 Sep 2012 00:18
Vader, are your 4k timelapse? I could see for timelapse a benefit... but not as much for regular stock footage. I guess the market will tell us in the coming years what is good. I'd like to test out how processor intense the 4k is and see what all I'd need to upgrade. Maybe in a year I'll be ready to buy an external recorder for the fs700, but for now I'm happy with the avchd it shoots. I thought it wasn't going to be a bad codec to work with but I haven't had too many problems... and the footage looks super sexy. Especially the slow motion!
12 Sep 2012 02:21
I think it is the direction things will go in, I am just betting the technology will become cheaper before it does. Spending that amount of money could give you a headstart in the evolving industry, but will that payoff be more than waiting for the tech price to reduce.
The answer to that question is not the same for everyone. I have a lot to do with the active duty military thing, so I just don't have time to shoot enough with an 8,000 camera to make it profitable. Some people may have the time. really depends on the volume of imagery someone is going to produce.
12 Sep 2012 02:34
What is needed is a hacked GH2 that will shoot thirty (30) 4k photos per second for at least 10 seconds. Problem solved for under $1,000!
4 Oct 2012 19:52
Finaly got mine FS700 :)
I bought sony 50mm f/1.8 lens for it
Hate ergonomics :D
Love the picture quality, still have to learn a lot about picture profiles and other settings, but i`m very glad that i`ve bought it.
Here is first few examples of slow motion:
and first clip from this camera:
Get the Flash Player
to see this clip...
Sad, depressed man sitting on the swing, slow motion shot at 240fps HD
Sad people in slow motion looks even more sad :D
4 Oct 2012 20:32
Congrats Radek...I'm totally with you on the ergonomics.
In other news I spotted dust in my Sony 17-200mm kit lens last night .. not happy. Very sad, like in that clip...
4 Oct 2012 20:38
I found that shooting 240fps and then stretching it a bit more (240 over 60p for less aliasing!!! not over 24/25) is satisfying....also, the state of affairs:
Get the Flash Player
to see this clip...
American Flag Tattered and Flapping in Storm slowmo
6 Oct 2012 04:37
I do 240 on 30p. So is this final clip 60p or is it 30p when uploaded?
6 Oct 2012 04:40
I don't know if they are manufacturing this stuff poorly or what, but I had a 'first' camera that I sent back and had to get a replacement. It wouldn't focus good on auto focus, really screwy. Like would lock to the background and wouldn't focus on close up things, had to put into manual to and then back to auto to fix. Anyway, I sent it back and got another. The weird thing was on the first one looking at the sensor it had some dust but the dust was not on the outside, it was on the inside of the glass cover. The new one is perfect... so far ;-)
6 Oct 2012 13:32
I didn't think I would but I'm loving this slow motion stuff.
6 Oct 2012 14:57
The problem with such expensive camera systems
exclusively for stock footage
is the high probability that the ROI will be many long years in the future.
But slow-mo is mesmerizing,
Changed 6 Oct 2012 15:12 by cinecameratv ""
6 Oct 2012 16:39
If I had a FS700 on hand, I would definitely study the whole s-log setups. Now that from what I have seen really makes a difference. Here is a pretty cool explanation of what it does and the has a neat video to show what it does:
S-log for dummies
6 Oct 2012 20:29
While both the C300 and FS700 are great cameras for production video they are just to expensive for shoot footage only.
The s-log is an upgrade which cost another $3800 that pushes the FS700 over 10 grand.
7 Oct 2012 04:11
Jason, there is no s-log available for fs700, where do you find this info? There are picture profile setups to resemble it, and those are free.
7 Oct 2012 05:10
Scott here's the link Vader posted "s-log for dummies" above mine check it out.
Changed 7 Oct 2012 05:11 by jason ""
Changed 7 Oct 2012 05:14 by jason ""
7 Oct 2012 14:11
This is for the F3, and was written in 2011.
7 Oct 2012 21:46
Scott you're absolutely correct about the s-log was for the F3 and of course that camera runs cost $13,960 without lenses. But I will stick to my statement that about both the C300 and FS700 are far to expensive for just stock footage.
9 Oct 2012 18:27
For sure too expensive for just stock, but if you do other things then you can justify it and get added bonus when shooting stock.
12 Oct 2012 04:52
Sorry I was remiss in this thread...have some info.
First off, and I'm actually kinda not really happy about it, is that the aliasing when doing the SSM is more than I like....for instance, a boat's antenna and upright components wiggle ... I HATE that. THis instance also shot 240 fps over 60p. So the recording frame rate is not the cure-all as I earlier suggested and hoped. I'm considering sending the camera back for this reason, although it is usually not such an issue, but I didn't fork over that much dough for a image with such serious flaws....or am I too picky?
@dapoopta, the flag was shot at 240, I believe (I'd have to check) at 60p, and then stretched a bit more. I rendered it out at 30p. I'm not sure when/if to start rendering multiple frame rates, like 24p, 30p, 60p, for each clip. Of course, if a buyer wants something different, I would be able to render a different rate assuming I shot 60p in the first place.
As far as S-log goes, I shot yesterday and today with a Picture Profile suggested by Alister Chapman....and I JUST now got back and am rendering the first clip....it's pretty flat looking, but took a grade REALLY well. So for dynamic range, this kicks butt. Call it
Shooting the slowmo stuff is difficult. Since you are recording to a buffer, and the trigger is "start", "end", or "end-half", and these choices determine how you handle the camera and how you time things, it is frustrating that they are only available to change via the menu. The easiest to shoot is "Start trigger"... push the rec button, and start buffering. Hope that your great action begins and finishes before the buffer fills.
THEN you have to wait around for agonizingly long seconds while the world becomes filled with missed opportunities as your buffer now writes real-time to the card. At least you get to watch your clip being recorded....and you have to start recording BEFORE the action gets good, because there is a pretty serious delay between REC button and start of clip buffering.
Then you have "end Trigger" which is cool, but if you have something that happens, and you want to capture it, you have to remember to start the REC (it is buffering constantly) before the beginning of your action gets overwritten....which is hard to determine, because time is elastic....it's easy to miss the beginning of an event.
So then there is "end trigger half" which I might not understand right (should read the manual again) but it starts halfway through the buffer, which starts halfway back....again, the timing is crucial, because you have to remember that each speed (120fps, 240fps, 480fps) has different available buffering times.
Anyway, it IS fun, but I'm trying not to shoot too much high speed....yes, there are some delicious shots I want to get, and I'm playing with it to get to know it, but one of the main reasons for this camera is the high dynamic range, low noise, interchangeable lenses, etc....I can't wait for a better aurora to show up because that display the other night was pretty awesome, but not as bright as it could have been, especially being diffused by the bright moon, clouds, misty air, and yes, dammit, water condensing on the lens...! So the noise level is not unreal, but I'm learning to appreciate the noise, in a way, it adds texture, and like someone (I think Phillip Bloom) said, it is a film-like noise, and organic....I'd agree with that.
I wish I could have compared it to Jake's microscope shot with the C300. I don't think it's as clean....nor should it be, really....but it's pretty darn good. I have a contact here in town who just bought an FS100, and he's got a long history with film, and is the real deal. He loves the FS100, if that means anything. At some point we will compare notes and images to get the lowdown on how much noise the higher pixel density of the FS700 causes in relation to the FS100, especially since we'll be able to interchange lenses, and settings (except for some of the gammas the FS700 sports, I think).
I don't necessarily think that this is too much necessarily to spend for shooting stock. I WOULD like to know what the majority of real buyers are after as far as quality, since there are some successful shooters out there with FAR lesser gear, and their stuff rocks because of their usage of what they have and their subjects. I would like to be able to offer clips of a quality that kicks butt and can be used without too much grumbling in a big production, and yes, of course I considered that I might improve my abilities and capability if I shoot events and small features/music videos, etc. But for now, since stock is what I do mainly, it is my focus, I love doing it even though I don't sell more than I need to keep myself in gear, it's what I do, and getting to that unreachable place where the gear meets my expectations.
I would like to know if the "average" person even notices noise and aliasing! On the other hand, I don't necessarily want to shoot for the average...I'd like to sell to some discerning types as well. So I keep working to improve my quality and abilities and all that.
OK...just finished the re-render. Apparently, something shot at 240fps and then stretched, if it contains lots of detail, will exhibit aliasing, so it is better in that case to leave it alone (in this case an unadulterated 60p).
One thing about this camera though, is that it is a royal pain...cords and cables and viewfinder loupes and soon, I'll be adding the PIX220 to the heap, I'll bet it weighs in at ... oh hell...I'll go weigh it now....my shoulders hurt! (FS700, Canon 100-400 L lens, DP4 EVF, PIX220, Vinten Vision Blue, 3 Sony NP970 batteries, 2 Canon LP-E6, 2 articulating arms, all together total 33lbs.)
But on the other hand, having bigger setup time, heavier carries, etc., might make for fewer clips, sure, and more missed shots, but maybe more consideration goes into each shot, making the quality go up as result.
12 Oct 2012 05:06
I think the slow motion will be useful for motion analysis, and sheer joy for sports dudes. These guys don't know who I am, but they do seem to "act out" when I show up....of course I'm usually transferring buffer when they really perform!
Get the Flash Player
to see this clip...
Kite Surfer Tracking Shot med close with Sunlight Waves
Get the Flash Player
to see this clip...
Kiteboarder Wide Full Jumps with Splashdown
12 Oct 2012 05:51
I think that the idea that a camera is "too expensive for just stock" is wrong. I enjoy your posts dapoopta and generally think they make sense but this one really doesn't. Your footage should be as good as you can possibly make it. This stuff is sold for everything from feature films to network TV all the way on down to industrials and web destined content. It needs to stand up, at the high end, to serious production values and the image quality needs to cut it. Just my take.
Mizamook, I think whether you keep the 700 or return it should be decided by your style of shooting and what you're interested in shooting. The super slow motion is of limited use for a lot of shots for me because super slow is often too slow to be interesting, 60 fps seems about right for most shots, though more would be nice now an then. A big sensor and shallow DOF are great in a situation where you have time and control, but can be a disaster in the field. Every additional piece of gear needed adds to setup time, and the shots out there, as you well know, don't wait. Of the new cameras announced in the last six months the one I'm most interested in is the Sony PMW 150. I hate going to 1/3" chips but if that's what it takes to get 600 odd mm of reach from the lens then that's what it takes. Forget shallow DOF with those chips, but that's fine, as I would usually prefer everything in focus. That's because of what I shoot and how I shoot, which is a lot of fast moving birds and what not. Barely have time to frame 'em, let alone focus… For the shots where shallow DOF and low light capability come in there are still DSLRs, and the new Panasonic with the choice of higher bit rates, the one the Bloom recently talked about, is of interest to me as well. Best of luck with it. Your clips are looking good!
12 Oct 2012 14:06
if you sell $200 a month in stock and the camera is altogether $10,000 then your ROI is in excess of 4.16 years because you have to add all the other expenses.
It you do 30 seconds TV commercials for $25,000-$30,000 then your ROI is just a month away.
I do only stock, so this camera is not for me. The new GH3 and then the BMC are better choices.
If you are a "collector" or a hobbyist t with deep pockets then ROI those not matter. ROI is the most important thing in this business if you do stock for business.
That explained, I like the C300 better. I think it is more versatile than the FS700 since it is small enough to carry with you in a bag where ever you go.
Changed 12 Oct 2012 14:09 by LUXORPYRAMID ""
Changed 12 Oct 2012 14:18 by LUXORPYRAMID ""
12 Oct 2012 14:22
$200 a month?
Maybe the larger thing is to re-evaluate what you shoot and move to another subject so the ROI would be down to that month or two you mentioned.
I only do stock as well.
12 Oct 2012 19:52
My ROI on this whole shebang is probably just about 1.5 years, except that my income stream seems to be slowly improving (in fit and starts). Also, because my current situation involves having income from prior ventures allowing me to eat, I'm looking at building up my stock portfolio/income for the time in the not-so-far-off eventuality when my current source dries up. By that time, I am hoping, the weight of my survival and life enjoyment expenditures (yes, I'm having fun when I travel and shoot stock so that's a double bonus) will be supported by my income streams generated by the use and past use of the gear I am building up now, so it seems to make sense to do the best I can from that point of view.
Markoconnell, thank you, kind words, and gee, that PMW-150 looks pretty cool. I beg to differ on the shallow dof though - with small sensors you just have to work harder to through the background out....but yeah, it's a different feel...shooting with the 700 with that heavy zoom on it., especially fully extended (since it is a push-pull) is hard, but not THAT hard....the direct manual focus is actually easier than the servo focusing rings....
Is that the "G" lens on that 150? If so, it's not a great lens. At least not any more. Hear me: My Z5U is on its way back to Lifetime Service Center for the 4th time! The last three times were because the new lens assembly (a different version of the same thing) does not seem to hold up to the old standard - this thing even went back to Sony factory to get checked out but WHY on earth would I accept a camera/lens that does not perform as it did when new? (The resolution is funky - not sharp, not detailed, on distant objects, whether in tele mode or wide, but near objects resolve great.) This compared to older clips from before the lens replacement, and also to clips shot with the V1U in exactly the same conditions, cameras on sticks side-by-side)
So the G lens of today doesn't seem to be as good...it is not as good a lens as the Sony kit lens that came with the FS700, although the G is way faster, and has more range of focal length....I'm not saying that it's worthless, but I am kicking myself for buying the FS700 kit lens...that was a waste of money. Seeing the difference in sharpness and contrast, less distortion, and less chroma fringing of the Canon lens cinched the deal for me...otherwise I WOULD indeed be sending this camera back! Becasue if I sent it back, one of the PMW cameras would most likely be what I go for. Not the C300 - it's too much money for me.
I hope the FS700's 4K is good, when it happens. I hope that the FS700 is able to shoot the high frame rates at 4K. Why do I want 4K? To deliver in that resolution, when the shot merits it, yes, but also to be able to crop down to 1080....currently, if applicable, I crop down to 720, which is fine, but sometimes it makes me sad.
I DO want to be able to offer the best quality I can reasonably afford. I do also want the camera for the fact that I can build it up or strip it down (yesterday showed me I can do that fairly quickly - going from tripod rigged with EVF down to handheld with stock viewfinder loupe tube)
Here's another "gotcha" I should have foreseen, and it's a big one: The PIX220 does not (and most likely cannot-ever) record a 60p signal. So I've got a piece of expensive, heavy kit that has a limitation that bugs me.....no HD-SDI, and no 60p recording...I didn't think I would want these things, but now I see that I acted too quickly. Be warned, all ye who consider like purchases!
I would still like to know what the other artists out there (and buyers) hold as a threshold of acceptability as far as both noise and more importantly, aliasing....
12 Oct 2012 20:13
Hey Mark, if I were a video person that ONLY did stock and only had a few thousand clips online, I don't think I would purchase the camera. I don't think I could justify it. Now, if I had other jobs that could cover some of the purchase costs I'd make the leap. I don't think I'll make my $8000 back from the clips I'm shooting with this camera for about 3 or 4 years probably. JUST the clips from this camera.
As I look at my port and the consistent amount of income with my growth in added clips (I'm adding more clips, almost doubling in a year, and still making what I was the last year...) I don't see enough of a correlation to trust the numbers. For me the FS700 is a toy that I needed to own :-). I am a high speed freak and have worked with a lot of different high speed cameras through my engineering career. I had the Miro 320s for a weekend and shot a few things. That is a $50k camera... I was trying to justify purchasing that ;-)!
A lot of stuff depends on what you are shooting. I think there is a good private market outside of stock, such as engineering/machining videos, where you can make a good chunk of money with this camera. That is what I am chasing. The stock is for fun.
So YES, I agree this could be purchased for a stock shooting camera only, but there are a lot of on-par cameras that can do the same thing for a lot lesser of a cost...except the high speed.
12 Oct 2012 20:20
Mizamook, welcome to the world of high speed :-P. The offload times are silly. The fs700 is actually crazy fast compared to carrying around a laptop and dumping clips from a Phantom. Some of the clips took 3minutes to dump. The fs700 takes about 20-30 sec. you can also hit cancel after you have what you want and it cuts the clip off from that point. The half and half trigger takes 1/2 the recording time before and 1/2 the recording time after you hit the button. I always use end trigger, wait til something cool happens then hit record.
The C300 is an amazing camera. I almost want to send my fs700 back and get one... but for me the high speed just hits a sweet spot :-). The C300, from what Jake has posted, is AMAZING in low light, AWESOME dynamic range. The C100 is also coming out, and it has everything except a different codec, which for me would be okay because the AVCHD on the FS700 isn't too bad to work with.
Here is a clip I shot with my fs700 that makes me never want to give it up :-)
Get the Flash Player
to see this clip...
Egg hitting skillet slow motion
12 Oct 2012 20:32
dapoopta, Hey, I already had breakfast! Yep, that's a great clip. I was wondering what your story was with the Phantom. Your information does help put things in perspective! It's still hard to wait for the buffer to dump....I do tend to cancel things and keep just the good bits....I like that function a lot!
Think the C300 is the aurora camera? Remember - the distinction I am seeking is that I am aiming for real-time. Physics knows....he must. It's one thing with a DSLR shooting long exposures and time-lapsed, but another entirely to capture it real-time. Not that I'm going to allow myself to start hankering for a C300....it's too much for my budget, for stock or not, I'm just not there. Money is going to go toward fast lenses! The fastest we have is the "nify fifty" f1.8. I shot the aurora the other night with a Tamron f2.8 17-50, but the 50mm prime is too tight given the crop factor so I don't use it.
Love your high-speed work, dapoopta!
12 Oct 2012 22:06
Here is few clips shot in slow motion, love that camera, and i started to love autofocus, if you don`t move to quick it can be a great thing
12 Oct 2012 22:28
Another thing I love about slow motion is you can hand hold it and when played back it looks like smooth motion.
12 Oct 2012 22:45
Not necessarily from a boat! I tossed 90% of the clips I shot yesterday including a couple good looking but too shaky. I'm withholding decision on a couple of them to see if the stabilization of AE will help (I'm going to get back into learning that soon)....here's one I kept:
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to see this clip...
Fishing Boat, Ship, Buoy, and Sparkling Fog Bay Waters
13 Oct 2012 01:22
what lenses are you using? I got the sony 50mm 1.8 for the IS and also auto focus.
35mm comes out end of the year
13 Oct 2012 05:46
i have the same lens 50mm/1.8, good to know about that 35mm
13 Oct 2012 05:55
"Is that the "G" lens on that 150? If so, it's not a great lens. At least not any more."
I'm not sure but it could be, and that could be a problem. Thanks for bringing that up. I love the lens on the EX1r, it's very sharp. I can't go down from that. I also have the Canon 100-400L, which I assume is the one that you're using, which is brilliant, and a few very nice old Nikon manuals. Something like the Blackmagic camera could be a good fit for me, especially with the bonus of the crop factor, but I've gotta have at least 60p or there's no deal. The quest for the perfect camera...
"I hope the FS700's 4K is good, when it happens. I hope that the FS700 is able to shoot the high frame rates at 4K. Why do I want 4K? To deliver in that resolution, when the shot merits it, yes, but also to be able to crop down to 1080....currently, if applicable, I crop down to 720"
To be able to do real crops on video footage without compromising resolution would be heaven.
"I would still like to know what the other artists out there (and buyers) hold as a threshold of acceptability as far as both noise and more importantly, aliasing…."
Noise first. I get noise from the EX in low light, pushing it wide open. The Neat Video plug in cleans it up beautifully. So I don't worry too much about that.
Aliasing- ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE! It's a personal thing. I hate it, maybe even more then I hate interlace artifacts.
"A lot of stuff depends on what you are shooting. I think there is a good private market outside of stock, such as engineering/machining videos, where you can make a good chunk of money with this camera. That is what I am chasing. The stock is for fun."
Chasing the engineering market makes perfect sense, especially since you speak their language. But just because stock is fun doesn't mean that it shouldn't be great.
"So YES, I agree this could be purchased for a stock shooting camera only, but there are a lot of on-par cameras that can do the same thing for a lot lesser of a cost...except the high speed."
Understood. Nice egg. Wish my pans were that shiny.
13 Oct 2012 06:28
Dapoopta, I'm using the Canon 100-400 L USM IS...with stabilization when handheld...it's pretty aggressive sometimes. Then I forget to turn it off and I lost several tripod shots yesterday....big dummy me! I also use a Tamron 17-50 f2.8, which is out in the cold right now, shooting more aurora (kind of a must-do, can't help it, so sorry, kinda thing) amidst a herd of ruminants in reproductive frenzy - moaning and cavorting...kinda scary... Yes, I still occasionally use the Sony kit lens, but I want to get rid of it and get the lens Motion_POland is using....and also I was thinking the Sony E-mount 16mm, it's cheap enough, but I need a FAST wide, and the Tamron is doing a great job so far....just need wider, please, and what if Michele takes her Tamron back?
Markoconnell, we are on the same page, I think as far as quality. One thing I'm finding is that Neat Video doesn't like the noise I generate from pushing the gain too much with this S&Q motion aurora timelapse. It's too different frame to frame, but I looked at one of Alister Chapman's clips on Pond5 shot with the EX1, and it's easily as noisy....but still, we strive for clean,...
On lenses....the difference in joy between the Z5u G lens and the Canon 100-400 is night and day. The V1u Zeiss glass is sharper than the G lens. From what I have seen of people's work with the Fujinon 14x zoom on the EX1/r, it look s quite a bit sharper than the G lens. Of course, my G lens has not been the same as it once was....I used to get REALLY crisp distant mountain peak edges, and now they are soft....even when I double and triple check the focus. It may be the new manufacture of the lens (same lens on the NX5, I believe) or it may be something wrong with my camera. Just check it out before you buy. The Z5 is a great camera.....I was finally learning how to love it in the last couple years, so as a form factor it was really helping me get those shots, but that fuzziness thing kept popping up and biting me. Love the close shots.
I hate aliasing too....so far, with vegetation and waves and animals, in slow motion mode it's fine...just not straight or slightly curved fine lines. It just rankles how that kinda cripples an otherwise great feature. I'm glad I'm not alone in the hatred of it, although I do understand how viewers have gotten used to it...it's been a part of motion pictures forever....and we learn to loathe but also to live with the flaws innate to our recording system.
For those of us trying to capture and re-create images of reality, it's a real pain though.....once you get into the abstract, conceptual, or artistic stuff, it's easier to work around or avoid since there is more control in the shoot. Tell me I'm wrong if I am in this...I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the 4K function/recorder option will be affordable, and that it doesn't introduce a whole new batch of issues when it comes.
I'm hoping to make money with the FS700 with local youth sports (my neighbor is a coach and talked to me about it a while back) and I do want to start shooting some more events, since with three cameras I can cover things pretty well.
13 Oct 2012 13:40
are you seeing a lot of aliasing and moire in your normal speed stuff miz?
I'm going to shoot some stuff today. I love this camera ;-) It makes me smile when I pick it up, but that's probably just because it is so new. My poor Mark II is jealous.
13 Oct 2012 13:41
Mark, this is a brand new pan ;-P. It won't be like this for long!
13 Oct 2012 14:33
Mizamook, Do you like the Canon 100-400L?
I was actually thinking of getting that lens, or the 70-200 IS
13 Oct 2012 15:38
Hey Jake, I have both the 100-400L and the 70-200 F2.8 IS L lenses. The 70-200 is on my 5D MK III 75% of the time. For wildlife or sports during day the 100-400 can reach out and touch the subject; especially on the 7D. For wide angle I like my 17-40 L. All three are very sharp and I've had no second thoughts on why I bought them. Very happy with all three. I very seldom use the IS feature, only good on hand held low light photos. With the MK II and III I just increase ISO and no need for IS. Some people still leave IS on for video or tripod shooting ... not sure they understand what IS is for ;).
13 Oct 2012 17:03
Cool, thanks Don
13 Oct 2012 20:05
I think people leave IS on accidentally ;-)
13 Oct 2012 20:06
Like Don said, watch that IS! Forget it's on and you'll be sorry. To really screw up your eye, change the aperture with the IS on....yikes, that's just weird. But it does help a little with boat stuff...at least the rolling is smoothed out rather than the sharp jerks.
I plan to get the 70-200 as well. It is supposed to be optically superior to the 100-400.
I love our two lenses (the 100-400 L and the EF 24-70mm L USM f2.8, but that one is mainly Michele's. Adding the 70-200 or the 70-300 (probably the latter) will make for a lot more options, especially since we share. At least I get additional magnification with the 1.6x crop.
Heard some good results from people using the extender on the 100-400 for REALLY pulling in the beady eyes of varmints (with the crop factor of the fs700, it's currently equivalent to 640mm max)
Here's a tool I found MOST USEFUL..... spend some time with this. This allows you to compare lenses against actual shoots at various focal lengths and apertures...make sure to mess with all options!!! I used the Canon 50mm f1.8 prime as a benchmark (at f8)
Lens Comparison by Some Helpful Dude with Lots of Time
14 Oct 2012 03:24
The stills people tend to dump on the extenders, but they're working at much higher resolutions. I did some tests with the 100-400L and the 1.4X extender on the 7D and thought it was more then acceptable at video resolution. Better have a steady tripod available though.
14 Oct 2012 03:26
"One thing I'm finding is that Neat Video doesn't like the noise I generate from pushing the gain too much with this S&Q motion aurora timelapse. It's too different frame to frame"
I'd think you should be doing that with a dslr and maybe using longer exposure times?
"Tell me I'm wrong if I am in this...I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the 4K function/recorder option will be affordable, and that it doesn't introduce a whole new batch of issues when it comes. "
OK. You're wrong.
14 Oct 2012 03:34
The extender is a long ways off...and yes, I know, but if it was that or a proper 600mm glass cannon, I'd be more likely able to use the extender if I had to ....thanks for the info on your tests with the 7d. I'd probably stick with the 1.4x rather than lose two full stops with the 2x.
14 Oct 2012 03:48
Well for what it's worth, Neat had a lot easier time last night - the aurora was so much brighter, and it made a HUGE difference. Neat's profile and settings were in the normal range, and the noise level is well within acceptable.
Remember that I am not trying to compete with DSLR/long exposure.....my goal is to attain a reproduction of real-time aurora if possible. Plus I noticed (and here's where it gets interesting) - raising the gain resulted in LESS apparent noise than lowering it. So instead of trying to skimp by at 12db, f2.8, 1fps, shutter speed 1 or 2, I'm shooting at 15db (not sure of the ISO equivalent) and using the S&Q function of 1fps over 60p, and then actually slowing it down, it begins to replicate the real deal. Note that I am still pulling more light out of the sky than is apparent to the naked (darkness adjusted) eye.
This one's the best so far -
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Aurora Borealis over Treetops with Stars
And this one is an example of getting close to the real-time - something not possible with a DSLR: (the clouds were fast anyway - watch the bright stars in relation to the P5 logo)
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Big Dipper Constellation with Aurora Borealis
And yes, these displays were awesome, but not as bright as I know they will be - and I want to be ready for it. If they get brighter, I can start to raise the frame rate a little....I love the way the movement is liquid, stately, and smooth in real life. It just doesn't come across properly as a time lapse.
I'm looking into the possibility of faster/wider lenses right now. So far I have only found one or the other....might just go with the wider (Sony E-mount 16mm with wide adapter) since I can't find faster and wider - suggestions welcome.
""Tell me I'm wrong if I am in this...I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the 4K function/recorder option will be affordable, and that it doesn't introduce a whole new batch of issues when it comes. "
"OK. You're wrong.""
Yeah, I figured....
14 Oct 2012 04:03
I think the 4k upgrade is under $1,000... BUT you have to purchase a 4k recorder. cheapest is like 2500
15 Oct 2012 03:23
The Aurora shots are looking good. Understand your point on trying to get real time as opposed to time lapse.
Special 4k recorder required? $2500-? Ouch. Leave it to Sony. I still can't get over the price of SxS cards. Astronomically higher then other media.
15 Oct 2012 16:19
SxS is such a rip. There are adapters to use sd cards instead... seem to work really well.
I had a chance to use my metabones adapter and my 24-70 lens yesterday. AMAZING! I love the adapter.
27 Oct 2012 08:44
This is too much fun - who cares if it is freezing out there? (Actually, I didn't notice until I came in!)
Now how to work with this - what else can I blow up?
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Fiery Flame Bursting Multiple Waves Slow Motion
27 Oct 2012 14:35
Looks fantastic! How does the codec hold up with all that motion? I have some flames in HDV and they didn't do so well. You still have that external recorder?
27 Oct 2012 20:17
Thanks - it was fun. Probably got about 20 clips from last night's fun. Big mess, too...
Yep...problem is the PIX doesn't record in 60p.
So I'm using the 60fps codec to store the 240 and 480 fps burst data. Haven't done tests with the PIX yet...it's such a pain.
I did similar tests with HDV too. Part of the problem wasn't the codec...it was the low frame rate (30p)....I could see the frame truncation on the flames, which is one of the reasons I got this camera.
I'm going to build a set for the next flames....don't hold your breath, but I definitely don't want to waste the effort, and that would be a great time to do multiple shots and definitely see if the PIX yields better image.
Besides difficulty nailing focus on something that's not there, working alone, it's also difficult getting the camera positioned so it is safe from the nasty fallout!
28 Oct 2012 02:24
Why not do 240fps to 30fps?
28 Oct 2012 02:24
and do you know how to make the camera continuously name the files even if memory cards are switched? all my new cards are 0000.mts hahaha, I have to put them in folders now!
28 Oct 2012 03:27
I just found out that I can't seem to get the recorder to recognize the HDMI when in SSM mode. Wierd, since my FP4 is seeing it. Dang - shoulda got the HD-SDI input device, as apparently it does work on the HD-SDI out. I'll futz with it more later.
I was having that problem, but got tired of hooking the camera to computer...got me a card reader and delete the cards from that. Numbering problems gone. I put my stuff in daily folders anyway, but it does get confusing, especially since once, early on, I accidentally overwrote some clips. No warning, either.
29 Oct 2012 23:39
I take the mem cards out and delete all the clips and put it back in and it keeps starting at 0000.mts
if I have any file on there like 0300.mts it will start at 0301.mts , kinda annoying :-)
5 Nov 2012 04:22
"Kinda annoying" you say? I agree, but what is really annoying is finding that when in S&Q mode, recording 60fps over 30p, for nice smooth slow motion, and then forgetting it's in that mode and shooting distant mountains, the resultant clip, which "should have" been perfect, exhibits aliasing in the rocky crags (similar situation to where I saw it in BBC's "Frozen Planet" which tells me that it's not just limited to cameras under $10K, and although it "could" be passed off as heat wave distortion and that the average viewer would not really even notice it unless prompted, especially if it was couched in a production with a compelling story, it was still disturbing enough to make me check the B&H return policy.
At least the area is small enough that a small mask with a slight blur fixes it well enough, but geez.