Sony NEX FS700 - 4k

Scott you're absolutely correct about the s-log was for the F3 and of course that camera runs cost $13,960 without lenses. But I will stick to my statement that about both the C300 and FS700 are far to expensive for just stock footage.

For sure too expensive for just stock, but if you do other things then you can justify it and get added bonus when shooting stock.

Sorry I was remiss in this thread...have some info.

First off, and I'm actually kinda not really happy about it, is that the aliasing when doing the SSM is more than I like....for instance, a boat's antenna and upright components wiggle ... I HATE that. THis instance also shot 240 fps over 60p. So the recording frame rate is not the cure-all as I earlier suggested and hoped. I'm considering sending the camera back for this reason, although it is usually not such an issue, but I didn't fork over that much dough for a image with such serious flaws....or am I too picky?

@dapoopta, the flag was shot at 240, I believe (I'd have to check) at 60p, and then stretched a bit more. I rendered it out at 30p. I'm not sure when/if to start rendering multiple frame rates, like 24p, 30p, 60p, for each clip. Of course, if a buyer wants something different, I would be able to render a different rate assuming I shot 60p in the first place.

As far as S-log goes, I shot yesterday and today with a Picture Profile suggested by Alister Chapman....and I JUST now got back and am rendering the first clip....it's pretty flat looking, but took a grade REALLY well. So for dynamic range, this kicks butt. Call it http://www.alisterchapman.com/maximum-dynamic-range-picture-profile-for-the-nex-fs700/

Shooting the slowmo stuff is difficult. Since you are recording to a buffer, and the trigger is "start", "end", or "end-half", and these choices determine how you handle the camera and how you time things, it is frustrating that they are only available to change via the menu. The easiest to shoot is "Start trigger"... push the rec button, and start buffering. Hope that your great action begins and finishes before the buffer fills.

THEN you have to wait around for agonizingly long seconds while the world becomes filled with missed opportunities as your buffer now writes real-time to the card. At least you get to watch your clip being recorded....and you have to start recording BEFORE the action gets good, because there is a pretty serious delay between REC button and start of clip buffering.

Then you have "end Trigger" which is cool, but if you have something that happens, and you want to capture it, you have to remember to start the REC (it is buffering constantly) before the beginning of your action gets overwritten....which is hard to determine, because time is elastic....it's easy to miss the beginning of an event.

So then there is "end trigger half" which I might not understand right (should read the manual again) but it starts halfway through the buffer, which starts halfway back....again, the timing is crucial, because you have to remember that each speed (120fps, 240fps, 480fps) has different available buffering times.

Anyway, it IS fun, but I'm trying not to shoot too much high speed....yes, there are some delicious shots I want to get, and I'm playing with it to get to know it, but one of the main reasons for this camera is the high dynamic range, low noise, interchangeable lenses, etc....I can't wait for a better aurora to show up because that display the other night was pretty awesome, but not as bright as it could have been, especially being diffused by the bright moon, clouds, misty air, and yes, dammit, water condensing on the lens...! So the noise level is not unreal, but I'm learning to appreciate the noise, in a way, it adds texture, and like someone (I think Phillip Bloom) said, it is a film-like noise, and organic....I'd agree with that.

I wish I could have compared it to Jake's microscope shot with the C300. I don't think it's as clean....nor should it be, really....but it's pretty darn good. I have a contact here in town who just bought an FS100, and he's got a long history with film, and is the real deal. He loves the FS100, if that means anything. At some point we will compare notes and images to get the lowdown on how much noise the higher pixel density of the FS700 causes in relation to the FS100, especially since we'll be able to interchange lenses, and settings (except for some of the gammas the FS700 sports, I think).

I don't necessarily think that this is too much necessarily to spend for shooting stock. I WOULD like to know what the majority of real buyers are after as far as quality, since there are some successful shooters out there with FAR lesser gear, and their stuff rocks because of their usage of what they have and their subjects. I would like to be able to offer clips of a quality that kicks butt and can be used without too much grumbling in a big production, and yes, of course I considered that I might improve my abilities and capability if I shoot events and small features/music videos, etc. But for now, since stock is what I do mainly, it is my focus, I love doing it even though I don't sell more than I need to keep myself in gear, it's what I do, and getting to that unreachable place where the gear meets my expectations.

I would like to know if the "average" person even notices noise and aliasing! On the other hand, I don't necessarily want to shoot for the average...I'd like to sell to some discerning types as well. So I keep working to improve my quality and abilities and all that.

OK...just finished the re-render. Apparently, something shot at 240fps and then stretched, if it contains lots of detail, will exhibit aliasing, so it is better in that case to leave it alone (in this case an unadulterated 60p).

One thing about this camera though, is that it is a royal pain...cords and cables and viewfinder loupes and soon, I'll be adding the PIX220 to the heap, I'll bet it weighs in at ... oh hell...I'll go weigh it now....my shoulders hurt! (FS700, Canon 100-400 L lens, DP4 EVF, PIX220, Vinten Vision Blue, 3 Sony NP970 batteries, 2 Canon LP-E6, 2 articulating arms, all together total 33lbs.)

But on the other hand, having bigger setup time, heavier carries, etc., might make for fewer clips, sure, and more missed shots, but maybe more consideration goes into each shot, making the quality go up as result.

I think the slow motion will be useful for motion analysis, and sheer joy for sports dudes. These guys don't know who I am, but they do seem to "act out" when I show up....of course I'm usually transferring buffer when they really perform!

I think that the idea that a camera is "too expensive for just stock" is wrong. I enjoy your posts dapoopta and generally think they make sense but this one really doesn't. Your footage should be as good as you can possibly make it. This stuff is sold for everything from feature films to network TV all the way on down to industrials and web destined content. It needs to stand up, at the high end, to serious production values and the image quality needs to cut it. Just my take.

Mizamook, I think whether you keep the 700 or return it should be decided by your style of shooting and what you're interested in shooting. The super slow motion is of limited use for a lot of shots for me because super slow is often too slow to be interesting, 60 fps seems about right for most shots, though more would be nice now an then. A big sensor and shallow DOF are great in a situation where you have time and control, but can be a disaster in the field. Every additional piece of gear needed adds to setup time, and the shots out there, as you well know, don't wait. Of the new cameras announced in the last six months the one I'm most interested in is the Sony PMW 150. I hate going to 1/3" chips but if that's what it takes to get 600 odd mm of reach from the lens then that's what it takes. Forget shallow DOF with those chips, but that's fine, as I would usually prefer everything in focus. That's because of what I shoot and how I shoot, which is a lot of fast moving birds and what not. Barely have time to frame 'em, let alone focus… For the shots where shallow DOF and low light capability come in there are still DSLRs, and the new Panasonic with the choice of higher bit rates, the one the Bloom recently talked about, is of interest to me as well. Best of luck with it. Your clips are looking good!

if you sell $200 a month in stock and the camera is altogether $10,000 then your ROI is in excess of 4.16 years because you have to add all the other expenses.

It you do 30 seconds TV commercials for $25,000-$30,000 then your ROI is just a month away.

I do only stock, so this camera is not for me. The new GH3 and then the BMC are better choices.

If you are a "collector" or a hobbyist t with deep pockets then ROI those not matter. ROI is the most important thing in this business if you do stock for business.

That explained, I like the C300 better. I think it is more versatile than the FS700 since it is small enough to carry with you in a bag where ever you go.

$200 a month?
Maybe the larger thing is to re-evaluate what you shoot and move to another subject so the ROI would be down to that month or two you mentioned.
I only do stock as well.

My ROI on this whole shebang is probably just about 1.5 years, except that my income stream seems to be slowly improving (in fit and starts). Also, because my current situation involves having income from prior ventures allowing me to eat, I'm looking at building up my stock portfolio/income for the time in the not-so-far-off eventuality when my current source dries up. By that time, I am hoping, the weight of my survival and life enjoyment expenditures (yes, I'm having fun when I travel and shoot stock so that's a double bonus) will be supported by my income streams generated by the use and past use of the gear I am building up now, so it seems to make sense to do the best I can from that point of view.

Markoconnell, thank you, kind words, and gee, that PMW-150 looks pretty cool. I beg to differ on the shallow dof though - with small sensors you just have to work harder to through the background out....but yeah, it's a different feel...shooting with the 700 with that heavy zoom on it., especially fully extended (since it is a push-pull) is hard, but not THAT hard....the direct manual focus is actually easier than the servo focusing rings....

Is that the "G" lens on that 150? If so, it's not a great lens. At least not any more. Hear me: My Z5U is on its way back to Lifetime Service Center for the 4th time! The last three times were because the new lens assembly (a different version of the same thing) does not seem to hold up to the old standard - this thing even went back to Sony factory to get checked out but WHY on earth would I accept a camera/lens that does not perform as it did when new? (The resolution is funky - not sharp, not detailed, on distant objects, whether in tele mode or wide, but near objects resolve great.) This compared to older clips from before the lens replacement, and also to clips shot with the V1U in exactly the same conditions, cameras on sticks side-by-side)

So the G lens of today doesn't seem to be as good...it is not as good a lens as the Sony kit lens that came with the FS700, although the G is way faster, and has more range of focal length....I'm not saying that it's worthless, but I am kicking myself for buying the FS700 kit lens...that was a waste of money. Seeing the difference in sharpness and contrast, less distortion, and less chroma fringing of the Canon lens cinched the deal for me...otherwise I WOULD indeed be sending this camera back! Becasue if I sent it back, one of the PMW cameras would most likely be what I go for. Not the C300 - it's too much money for me.

I hope the FS700's 4K is good, when it happens. I hope that the FS700 is able to shoot the high frame rates at 4K. Why do I want 4K? To deliver in that resolution, when the shot merits it, yes, but also to be able to crop down to 1080....currently, if applicable, I crop down to 720, which is fine, but sometimes it makes me sad.

I DO want to be able to offer the best quality I can reasonably afford. I do also want the camera for the fact that I can build it up or strip it down (yesterday showed me I can do that fairly quickly - going from tripod rigged with EVF down to handheld with stock viewfinder loupe tube)

Here's another "gotcha" I should have foreseen, and it's a big one: The PIX220 does not (and most likely cannot-ever) record a 60p signal. So I've got a piece of expensive, heavy kit that has a limitation that bugs me.....no HD-SDI, and no 60p recording...I didn't think I would want these things, but now I see that I acted too quickly. Be warned, all ye who consider like purchases!

I would still like to know what the other artists out there (and buyers) hold as a threshold of acceptability as far as both noise and more importantly, aliasing....

Hey Mark, if I were a video person that ONLY did stock and only had a few thousand clips online, I don't think I would purchase the camera. I don't think I could justify it. Now, if I had other jobs that could cover some of the purchase costs I'd make the leap. I don't think I'll make my $8000 back from the clips I'm shooting with this camera for about 3 or 4 years probably. JUST the clips from this camera.

As I look at my port and the consistent amount of income with my growth in added clips (I'm adding more clips, almost doubling in a year, and still making what I was the last year...) I don't see enough of a correlation to trust the numbers. For me the FS700 is a toy that I needed to own :-). I am a high speed freak and have worked with a lot of different high speed cameras through my engineering career. I had the Miro 320s for a weekend and shot a few things. That is a $50k camera... I was trying to justify purchasing that ;-)!

A lot of stuff depends on what you are shooting. I think there is a good private market outside of stock, such as engineering/machining videos, where you can make a good chunk of money with this camera. That is what I am chasing. The stock is for fun.

So YES, I agree this could be purchased for a stock shooting camera only, but there are a lot of on-par cameras that can do the same thing for a lot lesser of a cost...except the high speed.

Mizamook, welcome to the world of high speed :-P. The offload times are silly. The fs700 is actually crazy fast compared to carrying around a laptop and dumping clips from a Phantom. Some of the clips took 3minutes to dump. The fs700 takes about 20-30 sec. you can also hit cancel after you have what you want and it cuts the clip off from that point. The half and half trigger takes 1/2 the recording time before and 1/2 the recording time after you hit the button. I always use end trigger, wait til something cool happens then hit record.

The C300 is an amazing camera. I almost want to send my fs700 back and get one... but for me the high speed just hits a sweet spot :-). The C300, from what Jake has posted, is AMAZING in low light, AWESOME dynamic range. The C100 is also coming out, and it has everything except a different codec, which for me would be okay because the AVCHD on the FS700 isn't too bad to work with.

Here is a clip I shot with my fs700 that makes me never want to give it up :-)