Sony FDR AX100 UHD 4K

I have all my cameras manually set to 5200K. Just eliminates another chance of changing exposure.
edit: white balance change ;)

I'm a little sad and grumpy but before I explain why, Rekindle don't you mean white balance change not exposure?

The AX100 is pissing me off. That and the over $2000 I spent on a Kessler Cineslider and Parallax. Between the two, much of a day's work is ruined. A long, hot, steep hike up Canadian mountainside bear and mosquito infested awesomeness, with not a lot to show for it but jerky slides, and really crappy looking codec softening sharpness losing mush. Even though I did each move at least 3 or 4 times, I'm kinda frustrated.

Now, back to topics. I'm going to experiment more with the Cinematone thing. Scientific like, as in shoot several different scenes, with it on, and with it off, to compare back here at the editing bay. I did a little back when I got the camera, and liked it, but I'll look again, especially with regard to how it might be affecting my movement related sharpness loss/mush.

I use AWB frequently for the simple reason that one setting is simply wrong for every situation, and in many cases, it's all I can do to get the camera on, stabilized, and recording before the whatever-it-is goes away. And even when I'm doing tilts and such, I do like the shift - it's smooth enough, and accurate enough, most of the time. Sometimes I use the presets, sometimes I dial it in, but often I'm happy enough with AWB unless I botch it and forget, like this clip:

I wish I could turn down the sharpness. But there is another possibility I think I will experiment with, and that is shutter speed. I've been following the 180 degree "rule" most of the time unless I'm messing around with light FX. So when I'm doing slider moves, especially in highly detailed terrain (forest, tundra, etc.) where the static shot is simply glorious in color and detail, but when I move, it turns to mush. Offensive, disturbing mush. I can't seem to move slow enough, and even if I were able to maintain a smooth slide that slow, I don't want some of these shots to take more than 10-20 seconds, but they would, so is this camera hopeless for that? This is not motion blur...it's sharpening gone south. Maybe I need to up the shutter speed to much higher. Would that help preserve the detail during the slide/pan, etc? I'll let you know on that count, but certainly open to input as this is really ticking me off. Yes, it happens with AVCHD and other compressed codecs, less so if you can turn the in-camera sharpening down, and reintroduce it in post. Just gotta remember to put it back to 1/60 before that shot of a bird flying by.

Need to figure this stuff out, as I've got another driving/shooting trip coming up soon (California through Canada, to Alaska in autumn) and I don't want to screw it all up.

Oha, my condolences (or how to say) Mizamook. I know the frustration of what can happen, even without the danger to get stress with hungry bears. I never forget my 1st experience with Canon EOS video, driving hours to an airshow which is only every 2nd year, making the whole day the greatest videos of flight shows, ... and next day at home note that there's always a point on the sensor which ruined every shot! ;)
Back to topic:
I've made some short test clips. The WB in automatic isn't the problem. I testet AWB, WB outside, WB inside, WB 5000k and WB 5600k. In all cases AWB seems to offer the best result and i don't know why to set manual k because it's easy to edit this in the video editor.
The real problem is the auto-exposure (auto-brightness / Belichtung in deutsch). This makes dark shadow areas darker if there's a tilt or pan to light areas. Of course the exposure can be set manual, but this may affect partial over-exposure and more about this damage to the camera if shooting like my 4th sample. More about this in manual exposure the sharpness when pan or tilt becomes much more terrible.
The 3 test clips i insert here are only for a short while, because i won't fill my edit-library with test-clips. Maybe later i'll change these to a YT or Vimeo link, or only test images. So later readers of this thread can follow what happens. (Don't know what's best, if anybody has a tip what's best, i'm open for it).

Test AWB

Test manual 5600k

Test manual exposure

Usual video practice sample

Part of what you are seeing is the reality of reality in relation to the limitations of our digital imaging systems. We are not so desirous of seeing this because we are trained out of it by watching pro productions where the lighting is controlled. This is not reality. At least for outside, it is very hard to get dark forest and bright sky in one shot. Must accept "artistic interpretation" of that kind of situation. I will do many versions of a shot (like yesterday on the mountain with the slider) where i use manual focus, manual exposure, auto focus, manual exposure, and variations, all while attempting to smoothly slide. Found out great thing too, that being camera on end of slider, all terrain legs down, slider on shoulder, LCD open, makes great stabilizer. Wish I did that when looking over the cliff! Anyway, keep working at these things. I'm glad of your tests -thank you.

Your sensor spot stayed on my mind all day yesterday, Beckhusen, at least my issues resulted in a few good clips, but I was just crying about the ones I lost (many) at least I had something, and the mountain, clouds, and tundra plants will be there when I choose to go back!

Woke up this morning thinking I need to do another test. I took the AX100 out in the forest yesterday evening, and messed with shutter speed, and found that it doesn't make a lick of difference in the softening details because of motion problem. It's physically near impossible to move any slower, at least not consistently, even with a Kessler slider (which makes me really sad!).

Cinematone on/off "tests" still do something to the way it handles the edges of highlights, more testing to follow. Doesn't affect the motion thing either.

So I remembered this morning that I have an external recorder....why not set the AX100 to 1080 30P, and record the same moves with ProResHQ? Then up the bitrate a lot - I seem to remember the latest firmware updatefrom Sound Devices allowed really high, almost uncompressed _ I'll check into that.

Sometime today maybe. If the softening still happens (and again, it's not unique to this camera - it's just more apparent at 4K, and I'd be interested in hearing from GH4 users too.) ... if the softening still happens in HD at really high bit rates, then the cause is the sharpening/detail circuit in the front end of the imaging sequence, and there is no cure except to motorize the slider and move even slower. I wonder whether the PXW-X70 might be able to cope better?

Miz... you're dealing with a rolling shutter. The AX-100 does not have a global shutter, hence the softening (and possible jello) on a slider or a pan. On tilts you would do better.

Happens on CCD cameras too ($800 single chip DV anyway). And the softening happens on tilts as well on these CMOS chips. What I'm dealing with, I think, is that I want better results from what basically amounts to consumer crapcorders. If I want pro results, I need to get pro gear. That means a lot more sales before then though.

Yes! I have been looking at a package that runs up to the tens of thousands. But just can't justify it for stock only. Waiting for that bit break for a true DP moment where I can justify the rental or the purchase/lease. :)

Glad you agree. Still doesn't stop me from trying to eke the absolute best I can, whatever trickery and skulduggery might be involved, from the gear at my disposal. Shooting random makes it hard to even rent. (besides the fact that fancy gear rental houses are kinda scarce here in Haines....

Mizamook, if you live in an area where clouds and tundra plants will be there when you go back there you can be happy. In my area and country the seasonal weather conditions are abit like lottery if it's possible to get some nice shots. At first the summer is a short season and the only one to have all this nice green in the landscape. More about this often we have a flat grey sky and nothing will look fine in this light condition. At next i have only the sundays to make my tours and always hope for well conditions at these days. This also minimizes my efforts to make several tests outside. So if on tour i shoot as much as possible, because often i made the experience that a lost chance won't come back within a year! ;)
Yep, it hurts when too much clips are lost!
Till now it wasn't nessesscary for me to look into the deep of camera-/video-technics and so on, but since spending 2000.- only for the camcorder i won't declare myself no longer as a hobby-videographer. ;) This makes it more usefull to share experiences with settings and so.
About zebra: I checked it and i don't understand it, means i don't understand what it will say me.
About Cinematone: Hmm? Not sure, isn't it that we can also get this effect in post-production?
About camera movings: In between i'm sure the AX isn't my last camcorder ;) I don't have a slider, i record often by handheld or if it's important to get sure i use my Camranger Motorhead for pans and tilts. In the slowest setting it's ok, not 100% perfect as i want, but the camera movings in television films are also not better.
So slowly step by step i'll explore further possibilities of camera settings in practice.